Veg wrote:
Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid was supposed to chat with some LDS folks Sunday evening but the event was called off after protesters threatened to disrupt it.
This statement from Tule Spring Stake President Daren Richards to his bishops: “I am disappointed that people, primarily outside of our stake, threatened to disrupt the meeting and that unfortunately, due to security concerns, last night’s fireside did not occur. I told my Bishops to communicate to their members that Senator Reid wanted very much to participate with the Tule Springs stake at the scheduled ‘Why I Believe’ Fireside. Senator Reid was very sensitive about members who felt nervous or unsafe about coming to their own meetinghouses and he did not want them to have such feelings. It is for this reason that the fireside was not held last evening.â€
Looks like some of that tea was strong enough to last the weekend. Wonder if it will last the election season . . .
As Editor of Independent American News I want to personally thank all of those that sent IAN information about this fireside. Without the help of many people IAN could not have uncovered this violation of Federal law that was being promoted by a Stake President.
And be well aware that we will be watching and listening and if we hear about ANY elected official, be they Democrat or Republican or even a candidate for public office that is to be the keynote speaker in an LDS church setting, we, who care about Liberty, will be there to PEACEFULLY protest. The “Mormon” churches are not supposed to have such OBVIOUS political promotions.
Too bad that members INSIDE the Tule Springs Stake did not make loud vocal objections to this Gadianton Robber Marxist speaking at your Stake.
And yes, Harry Reid’s “brother” Mitt Romney is not is not a whit behind him as to things pertaining to righteousness.
Latter-day Saints are required by the teachings of the Prophets to eschew Socialism and yet far too many embrace it with open arms.
I am sorry, but what about this was political? This was a purely religious fireside, no political context, except what ‘protesters’ put on it in their own error. Granted, I can’t stand Harry Reid, I think his politics are incredibly bad for the country. I won’t even begin to try and judge his spirituality, thanks heavens that is for God only! I just am quite disgusted in those that would protest, during a church fireside. It’s utterly ridiculous.
If President Monson spoke on any subject would that be strictly religious or strictly political? When the church came out in favor of Prop 8 in California was that strictly religious?
If the Pope talks strictly about fly fishing because he claims it is about only about fly fishing and says Peter was a fisherman was the talk about fly fishing or about Peter?
If Harry Reid, in an election year, talks about ANYTHING it is both news and political. It matters not what he says or where he says it.
Can you tell me anything that Captain Moroni talked about that was not about politics?
There can never be a separation of religion from politics. The two are eternally tied together.
And if it is only for God to judge a man’s Spirituality then why do you have to get a temple recommend to go to the temple? Who do you have to get to sign your temple recommend? God Himself?
I am disgusted with anyone that would not protest anything where Harry Reid spoke. If Hitler were invited to give a fireside at your ward would you protest? Of course not because only God can judge Hitler’s spirituality. Right?
We know them by their works. We judge them by their works.
It sounds to me as though you have become one the the “more part” of the Nephites.
Hel. 6: 38 And it came to pass on the other hand, that the Nephites did build them up and support them, beginning at the more wicked part of them, until they had overspread all the land of the Nephites, and had seduced the more part of the righteous until they had come down to believe in their works and partake of their spoils, and to join with them in their secret murders and combinations.
I think you need to reevaluate your priorities and stop defending a man that openly criticized Ezra Taft Benson while speaking at BYU. A less powerful man would have been excommunicated.
By the way…if Harry spoke at BYU I would protest. If he spoke at the opening of the Harry Reid Sewer Treatment plant I would protest. So when the Church asks Harry to speak anywhere they already know that there is a very good possibility that there will be protestors there. Perhaps the Church should hire more security to silence dissent? Perhaps you can ask Salt Lake to excommunicate men like me that are vocal against Marxist Satanists like Harry Reid. Is that what you want?
And God tells us to judge. We are to know them by their fruits. Harry Reid’s fruits are Communism. LDS are commanded to eschew Communism. If you do not eschew Harry Reid then you are not following the commandments. No GOOD Mormon should have attended that Fireside. We help the weak members not to be condemned of the Lord. We should be praised for that… Right?
Only someone ridiculously naive would ask “what about this was political?” During election season—especially if you’re a guy who is in real trouble in your bid for reelection—anything that puts you in contact with potential voters is political. It just is. You don’t get to be senate majority leader while being ignorant of that particular portion of reality.
Here’s how this goes down: He tells some annoyingly heart-warming story about and half the mindless sheep in the room think, “Man, he really is a good guy. I should vote for him.” How often does Reid give firesides when it ISN’T election season?
I get so tired of hearing how you wussy Mormons aren’t get to “judge someone’s spirituality.” A man is defined by his actions. Reid’s politically corrupt. You can’t be politically corrupt and work day in and day out to sell out your countrymen and be just fine spiritually. You people need to stop believing you can somehow put up a magic barrier wherein no one is morally responsible for their actions in the political arena. Every moron out there who voted for George W Bush is in their own way responsible for his wickedness.
I’m disgusted by anyone who would allow a shrewd politician to enter their house of worship under the guise of being “purely religious” while whoring himself out for votes. Does the phrase “avoid the appearance of impropriety” mean anything to you people? I’m also disgusted by whatever genius thought this was a good idea. You want to have Harry Reid at a fireside when it’s 3 years into his term, fine. Whatever. You want that filth in your house, you’re welcome to it. However, during election season it’s totally unethical.
I mean, imagine how inappropriate it would look if, hypothetically, the prophet died and a Mormon was a presidential candidate at the time and showed up and got front row treatment? Let’s also say, hypothetically, that this same guy was the governor of an extremely liberal state and regularly endorsed policies that were antithetical to church teachings. (Oh wait. This suddenly isn’t sounding too hypothetical.)
You cannot separate your political choices from the rest of your life. The ballot might be secret, but God knows who you vote for and you better expect that He might ask you why you did what you did. Even an ignorant vote is morally wrong, because it’s irresponsible execution of your personal sovereignty.
Dear LDS.
One last note. The fact that you came to this web site to comment demonstrates that Harry’s fireside was very political. If it was not you not be here.
I am sorry, but you are completely wrong Christopher. I do not support Harry Reid in the slightest, in fact, I will do everything I can to get him voted out this year. But as for him offering his testimony in a dedicated church, a testimony about why he believe in God, no, I cannot, and will not stand outside that church, hurling insults. He has every right to offer his testimony, whether I believe he’s full of crap or not. The correct way to protest would be to not go. Simple as that, anything else is not in tune with the Saviour.
There is a time and a place for everything, and a protest outside a church where a member of that church is sharing his belief in Christ is not either the correct time or place. Now, should he have been invited? I personally don’t think so, but knowing the Stake President like I do, I believe he felt it was a good opportunity. Unfortunately, we’ll never know.
Where was all this controversy when HR spoke at the Highland Hills stake a couple of weeks? It wasn’t there, because it’s utterly ridiculous. And yes, religion and politics can be separated, isn’t it irresponsible to vote or not vote for someone because of what religion they are, rather than what they do or say? That’s why, even though HR is a Mormon, I could never vote for him. His politics are trash, but as for his spirit, I”ll say it again, only the Lord knows his heart, he expects the rest of us to follow the example of His Son.
And I came to this website to comment because I’m tired of people who should know better, acting like children. I’m tired of members of the Tule Springs Stake being castigated, because they weren’t willing to ‘protest’ an event that should only have been protested by staying away from it.
Anyone whose been around for the last election cycles know Reid does this everytime. I would have to say he usually hold private cottage meetings in members homes though. Bad idea for the church to promote such a controversial character with such a horrible trac record. Also unfortunate that the stake president ad to paint some sort of violent protest senario in stead of just stating that a call was made and the meeting cancelled. I spoke with several members up there that were sick over it. I know that a call was made to headquarters, initially stopping subsequent meetings and eventually this one. Please don’t lecture me about why you cling to your guns and religion… Your party mocks, denegrates, publicly maligns and insults us while you media friends pervert, twist and lies about us. We love our country, god and religion and will never allow your cronies to abolish, unjustly tax or in any other wY prevent our right to worship our God as we please. No matter what you say while you are behavng yourself.
Dear Adam,
What party mocks you?
how sad is this. I hate harry reid’s politics, but this was a chance for a influential mormon to talk to other mormons about his faith. Let him speak. I heard him give a similar speech at BYU, and it was not political. A victory for tyranny happened here.
Should the Church also have all the other candidates speak at Firesides?
As I have written several times. Every word that comes out of Harry Reid’s mouth is political. You cannot separate what Reid would say. It is impossible.
When Harry Reid spoke at BYU he openly criticized Ezra Taft Benson for leading the Church members astray.
I must guess that you agree with Harry or are you claiming that such a statement was strictly religious in nature.
When a politician speaks during campaign season it is political.
Is there any reliable indication that Church HQ sent word down to scrub the fireside?
If any person publicly accused me of leading other members of the Church down the wrong path for stating my political persuasions, and/or publicly criticized me for supporting what I consider a righteous cause, I would not invite that person to speak to a group in my home. I wonder if the bishops, stake presidents and the area 70 even were even aware of Senator Reid’s criticim of President Benson (The First Presidency was aware of it, according to our stake president at that time) and/or of his faulting the Church’s support of CA Prop.8.
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Umm — to the comment “eschew Socialism and yet far too many embrace it with open arms” NOT TRUE — what do you think the United Order is — Hello — know your religion much?!
Dear Dana,
Obviously you have not studied the doctrine of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints concerning the obvious differences between Socialism/Communism and the United Order. If you are a Mormon this is not uncommon as few Mormons actually study the doctrines of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints concerning Communism, Socialism, Fascism and other Satanic “false isms.”
Here are three statements from the leadership. Hopefully it will demonstrate the differences.
First Presidency Message, in Conference Report, Apr. 1942
False Political Isms (This is still on LDS.org the LDS Church’s web site.)
We again warn our people in America of the constantly increasing threat against our inspired Constitution and our free institutions set up under it. The same political tenets and philosophies that have brought war and terror in other parts of the world are at work amongst us in America. The proponents thereof are seeking to undermine our own form of government and to set up instead one of the forms of dictatorships now flourishing in other lands. These revolutionists are using a technique that is as old as the human race—a fervid but false solicitude for the unfortunate over whom they thus gain mastery and then enslave them.
They suit their approaches to the particular group they seek to deceive. Among the Latter-day Saints they speak of their philosophy and their plans under it as an ushering in of the United Order. Communism and all other similar isms bear no relationship whatever to the United Order. They are merely the clumsy counterfeits which Satan always devises of the gospel plan. Communism debases the individual and makes him the enslaved tool of the state to whom he must look for sustenance and religion; the United Order exalts the individual, leaves him his property, “according to his family, according to his circumstances and his wants and needs,” (D&C 51:3) and provides a system by which he helps care for his less fortunate brethren; the United Order leaves every man free to choose his own religion as his conscience directs. Communism destroys man’s God-given free agency; the United Order glorifies it. Latter-day Saints can not be true to their faith and lend aid, encouragement, or sympathy to any of these false philosophies. They will prove snares to their feet.
President Marion G. Romney
SOCIALISM AND THE UNITED ORDER COMPARED
The “communist manifesto” drafted by Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels, for the Communist League . . . in . . . 1848 is generally regarded as the starting point of modern socialism (Ibid.).
No, socialism is not the United Order. Distinguishing between these two systems need be no more difficult than solving the problem of the farmer who could not tell one of his horses from the other. They weighed the same, pulled the same load, ran at the same speed; from the looks of their teeth they were the same age. Finally, as a last resort, he measured them, and, sure enough, the white horse was six hands higher than the black one.
Now, not forgetting our duty to eschew socialism and support the just and holy principles of the Constitution, as directed by the Lord, I shall conclude these remarks with a few comments concerning what we should do about the United Order.
President Marion G. Romney Second Counselor in the First Presidency, The Message: America’s Promise, New Era, Mar 1980, p.4
In distinguishing communism from the United Order, President David O. McKay said that communism is Satan’s counterfeit for the gospel plan, and that it is an avowed enemy of the God of the land. Communism is the greatest anti-Christ power in the world today and therefore the greatest menace not only to our peace but to our preservation as a free people. By the extent to which we tolerate it, accommodate ourselves to it, permit ourselves to be encircled by its tentacles and drawn to it, to that extent we forfeit the protection of the God of this land.
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LOL. Dana just got pwnt.
Let me give you the TL;DR version:
The Plan of Salvation: Let men come to Earth, acquire bodies of flesh and bone, and be tried and tested to see if they’ll do the right thing.
Satan’s plan: Let men come to Earth, acquire bodies of flesh and bone, and be forced do the right thing.
The United Order: Let men voluntarily choose to give their property to the Church, keeping however much of it they and their bishop agree is fair. Any property acquired in the future still belongs to them, though they can choose to give to the United Order again, as many times as they wish.
Communism: Force every man to give all of his property to the State. The State has absolute authority to decide what to do with it.
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